Thought it was the other way round?

Its not a dead horse, its what everybody with a bit of rugby league knowledge can plainly see what WTW needs. Its also what the coach himself acknowledges in most post match press conferences with no go forward, being easily rolled down the field and constantly losing the collision.



Using Aiton at prop speaks volumes of the lack of real options that R.A. seems to have at his disposal and the reason why there is a suggestion that we are now trying to buy a prop Jerome Gout from Toulouse (if its true and not a wind up).



In the short term maybe give a recalled Spiers a go (at prop from the bench) against Warrington and play players in their natural position for a change (yes I know that sounds a bit controversial

).



Show me a SL team that wins matches with a weak front row.

If the coach acknowledges a lack of go forward, why did he play Aiton at prop? Like that will help anything!

I completely agree it was madness putting Aiton at prop (?!) and it contradicts what he's been saying over the last month or so, ever since the week after the Catalan game.

Correct. It's also what the coach acknowledged before the start of the season. Something he stated explicitly. We could do with another prop. The injury to Amor at the start of the season made this abundantly clear. The Johnson issue shouldn't confuse this. There may, and probably are completely different reasons for the non-selection last week.

Not totally correct.

But close.

If we have enough props, why are we having to play players out of position there and don't have enough on the bench either?

Surely if thats tactics then its time to get the effigy and the matches out of storage!!

We have 5 props yet all of them have probably only managed 1-2 good games. What we need is for them to perform consistently. We can't have it both ways where we say this team should be doing better than it is and then let them off the hook by saying we are light up front.



Yes clearly not the biggest or best pack but even so it's under performing in a big way. That's nothing to do with size etc it's to do with the players in question not doing the job as well as they could. In which case I can't see more props helping, as they will simply drop to the level already at the club if my experience is anything to go by.



No one is pretending we can match up to the bigger packs in SL but then you must be a fantasist if you thought we would this season. However there are teams that we are clearly struggling against and we shouldn't. Oddly we proved we can do it against Catalan, although I accept they were probably off par but all the same it as a good show from us.



It's a dead horse because it simply isn't going to be improved this season by signing new players - what's needed is for the well payed Props we have to prop consistently well - we won't win SL this season with them but it will make for a better season than so far. Clearly a Prop is first on the list for next season.



Forwards win games I utterly agree with you on that, but packs are created not bought - of all the elements of a team the Front Row is the hardest to get right IMHO - all other players can be made to look good by a dominant pack especially props - a pack actually has to be good especially the props. Sadly it's not all about size, it's about heart, teamwork and pride in themselves and each other - won't happen overnight or with rush signings. It's the one position where I'm willing to be patient.



That said the playing of Aiton and even Southern at prop I'm not sure I can explain so easily

In the context of what the club will do and what the fans want, almost everything is a dead horse by this assumption.

They have the money and grasp on what is achievable from a financial point of view, we just want to see a winning or at least enthusiastic/competitive side.

Our views are based on desire and pride and passion but these do not pay for players we cannot afford, and sadly we don't seem to have quite enough of them at the moment, and one thing is for certain, to turn our backs now will mean we wont have enough next year and the year after that...........

There does seem to be something of a puzzle going on at the minute and it does seem to focus around certain areas of our squad and the deployment thereof, so its definitely not a dead horse from the supporters (or many of them) point of view.

In reality as Vastman suggests it may be, but its not going to stop it from being re-examined week in week out as it is clearly an issue.

I would have to agree with Vasty, although I think we already have the basis of a really good pack; what we seem to be missing is a prop who is prepared to be a big 'orrible bully - all good packs have one and the effect they have on the players around them is palpable. A big hit, a line-busting run or a bit of biff lifts the rest of the team and inspires them to greater efforts.



We need our very own Mark O'Meley, David Ferriol or Fuifui Moimoi - that player could emerge from our current crop or more likely, will be bought in next season.

We have not got those type of forwards in our squad unfortunately.



I realise that it will have to wait until next season till we get at least one other genuine prop not converting second rows in desperation such as Southern. R.A. knew this was a weakness which is why he was going for Ewan Dowes in pre-season and said he was after getting some 'grunt up front'.



He doesn't seem to have confidence in our front row options either if he uses Aiton/Southern there - so you can have 5/6 props on paper but if the coach does not think they are up to scratch then its worthless and he'll look elsewhere which is what is happening.