St George, Saints away, Hudds h, Warrington cup, Bradford away spring to mind.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Sally is a Wire fan, and was pulling your leg mate.

I think people have looked too deeply into Friday's result to try and find reasons Warrington didn't win. In 2010 we had a shocker getting blasted by Huddersfield but against Leeds on Friday it was a close game that was swinging either way and it could easily have gone the other way - it was 24-24 going into the final minutes and many times in the past Warrington have won those sort of games with a Briers drop goal - including in the playoffs a few years ago when we scraped into the top 6 and knocked Leeds out away. If we'd have edged out Leeds, I bet the commentators would have been gushing about how tough Warrington were, how this is our year, we can not only win the blowouts but the tight games as well...



I also think Warrington were overrated by the media before the game and Leeds were underrated, because Warrington have had blowout scores, the expectation was that we were going to beat Leeds by 40 points and the fact we got dragged into an arm wrestle (which we ended up losing) people now say we bottled it under pressure...I didn't expect us to smash Leeds, I thought we'd win but I thought it would be a similar type win to what Wigan got in the CC Final.

what I find frustrating is we played Saints 6 times in one season.



Only two of them games actually meant anything



1. QF challenge cup

2. saturday night



the others were in essence 'dead rubber' games in the grand scheme of things.



this new play off system for me is not good for the game.



It should be a given that one of the teams that finished 1st or 2nd are in the final every year like the old play off system. I think it is laughable that neither the team that one the bloody league is not in the final.



i think this is the first year one of the top 2 has not been in the final?



I think the play off crowds reflect this.

Consider that leg well and truly pulled, maybe a post on the Wire forum to tell them that Cullen would have had the team ready to beat the Rhinos in play off games is in order.

What the play-off's unequivocally identify is the evidence of those teams and individuals who are able to play when it really matters; when the real pressure is on both mentally and physically. The intensity of the regular season means most players are playing with some level of injury. It is to what degree they psychologically deal with that and how they respond to incredible amounts of lactic acid build up and mental exhaustion. Sorting the men from the boys some would say.



It is very clear that whoever wins a Grand Final, does it tough. Very. And for that reason, any team who makes it from outside the Top 3, has had to do it incredibly hard. For Leeds to beat Hull, Huddersfield and Warrington; Saints to beat Wigan twice to get to where they are and do so with extremely resilient performances identifies very clearly for me why the system works in it's present format. We have a superb system that has produced some absolutely outstanding games in recent weeks. For anybody to want to modify that and lose it, is absolutely bonkers.



If the team finishing 1st or 2nd are really that good, when the pressure's on, they will win. Or not.

Correct, Oct 2nd 2010, victory at Old Trafford......Oct 1st 2011, defeat in the elimination semi final, almost a year and in that time we have had a narrow loss in an exciting World Club Challenge, a superb Challenge Cup campaign that included an away win at Warrington, a semi final victory over Saints, ending up with reclaiming 'our' trophy at Wembley, the nail biting last minute win on Good Friday, the goal on the hooter at Leeds to grab a draw from the jaws of defeat, the emergence of Sam Tomkins from 'good young prospect' to being considered by many on here as an 'all time great', the 'birth' of the Ultra's/Brigantes that has taken our support to another level, the Under 20's winning their comp and showing what great talent we have coming through our ranks, lets celebrate our success's and look forward to next season, the clubs in safe hands, be positive.

Which hardly anyone turns up to watch.

Have you seen those square things that produce sounds and pictures? Marvelous inventions.



And yes, the Grand Final doesn't attract 70,000 plus, oh wait.......

Crowds are crap for the playoffs under the current system. Grand Final is a given no matter what format is used. The clue was in your comment about "recent" weeks not "future" weeks.

The crowds are a completely separate element to the debate, which was about the validity of the current format - not the marketing, pricing policy of the games. That's another issue and one which needs addressing clearly.



For any team to make the play off's from 5th, is a tremendous boost to the sport given the adversity they have had to face. It's also really simple; if a team in the Top 2 are really that good, they will perform when it matters. Never mind all this "off day" guff, all players are very aware when they have to show or go.



The Top 8 format works, for a variety of reasons, all of which have been clearly substantiated by both clubs, coaches and fans alike. Like I said, it's also a huge smokescreen and detracts from a number of superb performances by Saints and Leeds to get to Old Trafford. It's what sport is all about, performing when it matters. Simple.

Let's talk facts then, as RL is a commercial sport which needs income to survive. In 2003 Wigan drew 21,790 for a play off game v Saints. In 2004 we drew 16,179 against Wakey in the playoffs. Our crowds were lower on average then than they are currently. Gates for the playoffs outside the final have fallen dramatically across the board, co-inciding with the move to top 8, which for a commercial organisation is rather bad news.