It's a disappointment as I think Platt and Ainy were forming a good solid partnership on the right hand side.



Hopefully Walker can come in as his replacement.



We've got Olibion, Whitehead and Elima who can fit play in the back row, Donaldson is also available as is Addy as both of them are LF's I think at least one should be in the team for Sunday.



But with Easter coming up, we need as many fit bodies as we can get to cover the quick turn around of games.

Bad news for platty been going really well this year and his defence has been awsome. That pillock on T&A website, mumbyfan, moaning about him at huddersfield........did anyone turn up at Huddersfield except the fans!



On a more positive note at least we are sat here this year looking at the injuries knowing that we have able replacements rather than knowing last year we would be up the $hiitt creek had this happened.

[i"We don’t have any superstars so we can’t rely on that kind of quality to win games.”[/i



A touch of reality there - although given we can operate at the full cap im not sure why the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield and Saints can include superstars and we cant.

because there aren't any worth signing up in potter's opinion?

Saints play a lot of youth players these days, or at least ones that only broke through recently, so won't be on big contracts. Leeds have a lot of players I'd consider average, and again a mix of youth boys, so I can see how they could manage it too.



As far as Wigan, Wire & Huddersfield's squads go, I don't think anyone can understand how they legally manage that. But of course, they must do, as surely the RFL would pick them up on salary cap breaches otherwise?

It's not like there's a way round it or anything eh?

Why are you

like Adey?

Warrington are indeed fortunate that so many half decent players are prepared to play for little or nothing, in a Radlinski stylee, purely for the honour of wearing the Wire shirt. That's what makes it all work out, I imagine

Its hard to see how the cap could be cheated, though?



Take, by way of hypothetical example, a player (especially an overseas player) at a club who was to find money, not from the club, appearing in a bank account he had the rights to somewhere offshore, now or in the future. He would surely realise that something was amiss? And surely no player or club or owner would want to take the risk of something like that getting out into the public domain and being misconstrued or worse? Even if it was not until the biographies get to be written?



No, I think we have to accept that many players are seemingly prepared to accept much less generous packages to play for certain clubs. Maybe it was their childhood ambition, or they have the hots for the club physio, who can say? Or maybe they manage to find, all by themselves, some third party totally unconnected with the club, prepared to pay their personal service company a huge amount for their image rights or for other services totally unconnected with the club. Some of these players' agents must be pretty well connected, I guess?

TBH I think its a case of club knowing for a while that platt had to go in for op and putting it off until walker was back. Providing platt's back in time for leeds (or even catalans as a fresh player) then next few weeks is probably the best run of games to have him unavailable for if we have no choice.

Real shame for Platty, he's been in great form.



Bumped in to James Donaldson earlier, he's raring to go. Mentioned that Langley is definitely out and also Scruton is struggling with a wrist injury. Maybe young Burgess to play?

Whether of course, this is pure speculation I do not know, but it's something I've been told frequently in the past. When Nobby was coach and his wife was in charge of the club shop, he was, in theory, paid a pittance, whereas his wife scooped a fair whack as of course, club shop staff are exempt from the cap, and coaches are not.



The live cap now also strengthens the security of the salary cap, and I'm just of the believe clubs like Wire have used appropriate and legal loopholes and methods to do what they can, which you have to say to them, fair chuffing play.

First point - wrong. Coaches do not count under the cap. The arrangement with Nobby's wife was nothing to do with the Cap. You may be getting confused with the widely-held belief that, some years ago, Renouf at Wigan was paid sod all but his missus was paid a shedload for a clerical job. Allegedly. Whether true or not, that device has been caught by the cap for years now.



Second point - actually it doesn't. What is does do is provide a mechanism where clubs can plan with a higher degree of certainty, and where (in the normal course of events) a club should not be able to breach the cap provided it complies with the Salary Cap Rules since a player's "salary Cap Value" (which is not necessarily what he is paid, btw) is determined in advance. If a club was to make, faciliate or arrange payments to players that were not disclosed to the RFL then the Live Cap has no more chance of picking it up than the previous arrangements. I am sure everyone will have their own views on whether any clubs or owners ARE likely to engaging in such practices, or instead following the rules and disclosing everything as you would hope.

When it comes to Wire you are all missing the point that Morley, Briers, Myler, Atkins and now Evans are all loved by Sky Sports meaning their salaries don't count under the salary cap.

Well, I've just been shot down well and truly!



But when you mention such "arrangements" of payments to players unbeknown to the RFL, do you mean third party payments etc? I've never really grasped what the live cap is all about (as you can see), but I'm eager to learn.

Indeed - and what a dumbass I am for forgetting that





Just rechecked the RFL 2011 Handbook and yes, there is is - under "club-specific dispensations", in black and white.



Its in the same list as, for example, "No pass by a Leeds player shall be adjudged to be forward unless a Sky Muppet says it is so", "No side playing Bradford shall be adjudged to be lying-on in the tackle, ditto", "All Video Ref decisions in games involving Bradford are to be adjudged in the other team's favour unless the credibility of the RFL is at stake", "When on Sky, every Bradford "Try"is to be referred top the video ref as a matter of routine" and "the overseas quota shall not apply to the club playing at the most easterly end of the M62 corridor".



I thought it might be under the "Player-Specific Dispensations", along with clauses like "Keith Senior is to be adjudged invisible in any tackle", but seemingly not. That was how I missed it.

Follow [url=http://www.therfl.co.uk/operational_rules=#800000this[/url link and download the RFL Official Guide. LOADS of useful stuff in there, including the full workings of the salary cap.



At its simplest, if a club owner (say) made a payment out of his own pocket, or own business, to (or for the benefit of) a player, and did not disclose that fact to the RFL, then it is hard to see how the RFL could be expected to pick that up. The risks are high, of course - not least where the effect is also to evade tax, which is why it is always assumed there is more scope with overseas players since they are usually non-doms. Whether anything like this has gone on or does actually go on anywhere is, and likely always will be, a matter for speculation only. I certainly have seen no evidence that it does.

Big help Adey, as always. I'll swot up and get you on a financial faux pas somewhere down the line!

You do that! Be a lot happier if a "friendly" on here catches my mistakes in time, before some clever sod from another forum (and there are some pretty clued up folk lurking out there) does and humiliates me to the whole planet!

As a fully paid up member of the sceptical brigade (sceptical that all clubs are being totally honest about the cap, that is) I wonder just how likely it would be for you to be able to spot any actual evidence?



I know you're a bright, clued up guy who would definitely know where to look and probably more importantly, exactly what to look for, but against that [ithey[/i themselves have similar attributes (or will be employing someone who does) who would, if my suspicions are correct, be making every effort to hide their illegal (in a tax sense) and against the competition rules activities.



Would it be easy/feasible to hide?

If that sort of activity was going on (and I of course am not suggesting it is), I would suggest they are very very good at hiding it, as clearly the RFL haven't any evidence to suggest it's going on, and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to look at any evidence that did show up and act upon it.



On a completely and totally unrelated rumour, I understand that the news that Joel Monaghan has just been offered a deal with San Remo to start writing and performing music for concerts is completely untrue. I hear he's a very good singer though.

In reply to Bulliac: from the RFL? Absolutely, IMO.



From the tax authorities? Getting harder, but I have no doubt at all you could do it. But if your intention was primarily to pay players over the cap rather than to minimise the tax paid by the player, then this would hardly be a concern anyway.



Here's one indicative example I just dreamt up this minute. Its hardly a developed plan, so I'll not warrant it is free from holes but its to give an idea:



1 - Overseas player sets up an offshore personal service company.



2 - Player, via his offshore company, enters into a "consultancy" agreement (or similar) with an offshore company owned by a mate of the club owner, for say USD 20k/month



3 - Player's offshore company invoices owner's mate's offshore company at USD 20k/month.



4 - Owner's mate's offshore company invoices one of owner's companies (preferably offshore but need not be) say £21k/month for "market development and representation services " or similar.



5 - If the owner is concerned that his own company may not be able to claim the expense as a valid business expense, he just has the expense disallowed for tax or else reimburses the company out of his own funds.



6 - The player - being non-domiciled in the UK - is not taxed on the USD 20k/month provided he does not remit it to the UK. So he leaves it sat offshore. And provided he does not remit it back home, but draws on it and spends when overseas (or maybe uses a device like the Singapore Sling), he can probably avoid tax on it altogether.



I just dreamt that up, as a way of muddying the trail AND avoiding tax. Obviously would need more detail by the professionals, and there are loads of variations I could think of. Some much simpler - like handing over the ubiquitous brown envelope stuffed with notes...although that is getting much harder now if you are running legitimate businesses. And it does not have to be confined to overseas players - its just easier when the guy is a non-dom because you can keep the income out of sight of the UK taxman, and all the trails that creates.



The RFL salary cap auditor could hardly track any of this through, could he? If player was asked is he receiving anything else from the club or its owner or a connected party, he can answer "no". if owner is asked is he paying anything else to the player he can answer "no". And strictly, both would be telling the truth. If the question was extended to "are you, directly or indirectly, paying/receiving..." then it gets a bit more grey. But provided all parties keep their mouths shut, who would ever know?



And that is the key really: you'd likely only ever find out if someone opened their big mouth at some point.



But, I stress, this is all speculation and hypothetical - I have never heard any evidence of anything like this going on. But if I was a wealthy club owner, and if I was so minded, I am sure I could put arrangements in place to avoid the cap. But I am not wealthy, and even if I was I would prefer to be able to sleep at night and look at myself in the mirror next morning. I am sure all the club owners would feel the same?

Remember Superstars are made they don’t just appear, and I believe we have the makings of a few.

Actually I'm very much like you; I too am sure all club chairmen and CEOs are dedicated to being totally above board and can look at themselves in the mirror each morning without the slightest twinge of guilt anywhere in their minds. Then I look at the odd squad, supposedly put together with the same amount of money as all the other clubs, and I can but wonder........

I think it must just be coincidence that the likes of Wire, Huddersfield, Wigan have owners with a bit of dough.

Its clearly a case of all salary caps are equal; but some appear more equal than others?