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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"you can create a pro team and play professional RL tomorrow simply not in Super League. There is nothing to stop you setting up a new league and trading as that. Nothing to stop you inventing an RL team of your mates, paying them what you want and operating as an RL side. You might struggle to find someone to play against but no clubs are under an obligation to play you'"
simple question then: if the players feel that they could be earning more than they are now in a free market, why dont they all just walk away en masse and set up a new competition where they can be paid whatever they want.
I am guessing that they could find a couple of clubs to go with them, but the majority of clubs wouldnt. |
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| Quote saints35 bulls0="saints35 bulls0"simple question then: if the players feel that they could be earning more than they are now in a free market, why dont they all just walk away en masse and set up a new competition where they can be paid whatever they want.
I am guessing that they could find a couple of clubs to go with them, but the majority of clubs wouldnt.'" Thats pretty much the reason.
If the clubs stick together then they hold the power (unless of course it is ruled illegal for them to do so) |
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So how has the salary cap helped here.
[urlhttp://www.sporthull.co.uk/headlines/Hull-KR-Accounts-debts-163-3m/article-1638846-detail/article.html[/url
[urlhttp://viewtopic.php?f=59&t=439393&start=135[/url
The salary cap was brought in to protect clubs from doing this which I agreed with, not equalise the competition.
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Rogues, limiting them to £1.6m has helped, can you not see that. if they had been allowed to chase glory like Wigan in their 'glory' era and spent millions more they didn't have, they would now be in a far worse position.
If we scrap the cap like people suggest, how much would Saints, Hull KR, Wigan etc spend on salaries? These are established clubs who simply cant afford to spend more than the cap.
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I'm not suggesting we scrap it, but the initial idea of the cap was to prevent things like this happening.
Clubs have to be made to realise they cannot overspend by such great amounts year on year. Are they really only spending £1.6 million on wages?
Leeds turned over £10.6 million and still made a loss. If they spent £1.6 million on players salaries, where was £9 million spent?
The salary cap in principle is a good idea, and something I have supported, but it's still needs some more thought to stop the HKR type of situation repeating itself.
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| Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"I'm not suggesting we scrap it, but the initial idea of the cap was to prevent things like this happening.
Clubs have to be made to realise they cannot overspend by such great amounts year on year. Are they really only spending £1.6 million on wages?
Leeds turned over £10.6 million and still made a loss. If they spent £1.6 million on players salaries, where was £9 million spent?
The salary cap in principle is a good idea, and something I have supported, but it's still needs some more thought to stop the HKR type of situation repeating itself.'"
Leeds probably spent the £9m on such things as non-playing staff salaries, ground maintenance (Built a new stand, is that capitalised as a fixed asset?), match day costs, policing, marketing and promotion, training facility rental/upkeep, medical costs, insurance, youth development, community schemes, transport, bribing match officials and management charges to the parent company. |
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| Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"I'm not suggesting we scrap it, but the initial idea of the cap was to prevent things like this happening.
Clubs have to be made to realise they cannot overspend by such great amounts year on year. Are they really only spending £1.6 million on wages?
Leeds turned over £10.6 million and still made a loss. If they spent £1.6 million on players salaries, where was £9 million spent?
'"
Amongst other things, some of the the costs (not the same as 'spent') according to the accounts were:
Directors emols £290,248
Directors pensions £9,765
Other wages & Salaries (incl players) £4,486,967
Social Security Costs £404,071
Other staff pensions £59,317
Amortisation of transfer fees £33,823
Depreciation £502,667
Amortisation of ground improvement grants (32,561)
Dontation to LR foundation £50,000
P&M rentals £55,461
Paid to Leeds RUFC for unspecified services £200,000
Audit £14,000
auditors - tax services £5,650
auditors - other services £8,565
Legal fees £62,031
Interest paid on bank loans/overdrafts £4,452
Interest paid on loans from group £46,500
CT £458,959
DT £38,814
And, according to what they have said, some £500k on repairs (not capital) to the South Stand plus some refurb work to the Pavilion which also seems to have gone through the P&L.
But more than any other one thing it's wages and salaries - the club employs 100 people besides the players and matchday employees. Just because Wigan are a club without a ground, a soul or much else besides a matchday operation, doesn't mean the rest of the league is. |
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| Quote MjM="MjM"Amongst other things, some of the the costs (not the same as 'spent') according to the accounts were:
Directors emols £290,248
Directors pensions £9,765
Other wages & Salaries (incl players) £4,486,967
Social Security Costs £404,071
Other staff pensions £59,317
Amortisation of transfer fees £33,823
Depreciation £502,667
Amortisation of ground improvement grants (32,561)
Dontation to LR foundation £50,000
P&M rentals £55,461
=#FF0000Paid to Leeds RUFC for unspecified services £200,000
Audit £14,000
auditors - tax services £5,650
auditors - other services £8,565
Legal fees £62,031
Interest paid on bank loans/overdrafts £4,452
Interest paid on loans from group £46,500
CT £458,959
DT £38,814
And, according to what they have said, some £500k on repairs (not capital) to the South Stand plus some refurb work to the Pavilion which also seems to have gone through the P&L.
But more than any other one thing it's wages and salaries - the club employs 100 people besides the players and matchday employees. Just because Wigan are a club without a ground, a soul or much else besides a matchday operation, doesn't mean the rest of the league is.'"
Now, wouldn't that one right there rankle a tad? |
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| Quote Saddened!="Saddened!"Now, wouldn't that one right there rankle a tad?'" icon_smile.gif It's only money! I'm pleased we are doing all we can to help out our up and coming associate club in their quest to become the dominant rugby force in Yorkshire. |
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What transfer fees?
Depreciation on what?
What is CT and DT
Why a payment to Leeds RUFC?
100 employees doing what?
At an average of almost £29K per year.
Adding all your figures together including £1.6 million for the players wages then where has the other £4 million gone?
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| Quote MjM="MjM"icon_smile.gif It's only money! I'm pleased we are doing all we can to help out our up and coming associate club in their quest to become the dominant rugby force in Yorkshire.'"
Hmmm your helping them,sure Its not the other way round. |
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Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"What transfer fees?'" Leeds policy when they sign someone on a fee is to write the fee off over the length of that player's first contract. A reasonable policy - God knows who's in that figure in 2008. Last year of Gareth Ellis maybe. It's not a huge figure.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Depreciation on what?'" Something Wigan wouldn't be familiar with - fixed assets. Don't have the accounts to hand, but the Carnegie Stand will be a good chunk of it.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"What is CT and DT'" Corporation Tax & Deferred Tax.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Why a payment to Leeds RUFC?'" I'd really love to know. They pay Leeds more in rent etc than Leeds pay them - but then again Leeds own the bloody stadium, pay Hetherington & the rest and they provide no discernable service to Leeds I can find. But they do lose lots of money so perhaps just need the cash.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"100 employees doing what?
At an average of almost £29K per year.'" Running a stadium/conference centre/cafe bar/Rugby League club/investing ****loads into the community game. You can email them all and ask what they're up to if you like.
www.therhinos.co.uk/club/staff/index.php
It seems to be beyond you but turnover of £10m is not coming just from matchday activities. Leeds have corporate facilities for 1,200 people per game - more, they are proud to tell us, than Elland Road and probably more than half the rest of the league put together. So they are ahead to begin with but those facilities then get used midweek for conferences/weddings/special events etc - as the link says, "non-sporting business, including conferences, parties and seminars still account for more business than any other sector". Generating that income costs money and putting on the events which generate that income costs money.
One way of running an RL club is having overheads consisting solely of players salaries, a couple of ticket office girls and paying the rent on a stadium you don't own. Great - but you won't get the turnover to levels sufficient to do much else on the expenditure side then. |
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Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"What transfer fees?'" Leeds policy when they sign someone on a fee is to write the fee off over the length of that player's first contract. A reasonable policy - God knows who's in that figure in 2008. Last year of Gareth Ellis maybe. It's not a huge figure.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Depreciation on what?'" Something Wigan wouldn't be familiar with - fixed assets. Don't have the accounts to hand, but the Carnegie Stand will be a good chunk of it.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"What is CT and DT'" Corporation Tax & Deferred Tax.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Why a payment to Leeds RUFC?'" I'd really love to know. They pay Leeds more in rent etc than Leeds pay them - but then again Leeds own the bloody stadium, pay Hetherington & the rest and they provide no discernable service to Leeds I can find. But they do lose lots of money so perhaps just need the cash.
Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"100 employees doing what?
At an average of almost £29K per year.'" Running a stadium/conference centre/cafe bar/Rugby League club/investing ****loads into the community game. You can email them all and ask what they're up to if you like.
www.therhinos.co.uk/club/staff/index.php
It seems to be beyond you but turnover of £10m is not coming just from matchday activities. Leeds have corporate facilities for 1,200 people per game - more, they are proud to tell us, than Elland Road and probably more than half the rest of the league put together. So they are ahead to begin with but those facilities then get used midweek for conferences/weddings/special events etc - as the link says, "non-sporting business, including conferences, parties and seminars still account for more business than any other sector". Generating that income costs money and putting on the events which generate that income costs money.
One way of running an RL club is having overheads consisting solely of players salaries, a couple of ticket office girls and paying the rent on a stadium you don't own. Great - but you won't get the turnover to levels sufficient to do much else on the expenditure side then. | |
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