How was the rugby under McClennan from post easter 2008 onwards?



Smith post perpignan 2005?



Theres an argument that we haven't played ''attractive'' rugby sin/ce midway through 2005, bar the start of McClennan's reign in 2008.

attractive rugby doesn't win you many games in the modern leagues and it certainly won't help you win finals; in the past the gap between top clubs & poor clubs was big enough to throw the risky/attractive ball alot more, now the poor teams are good enough to handle most of the off the cuff play and counter attack when it goes wrong, so its all about the structure/shape these days.

Very true







Some coaches/managers are better as the No2 than the No 1. But in McDermott's case he did go on to accomplish plenty at Leeds as senior coach.







But this is not the full story. McDermott took over a troubled side mid season from Tony Rea in July 2006 and did turn turnaround their fortunes with a strong finish. Then the off the field troubles continued with their Chairman moving to Wigan and the finances dired up so much so that key players Henry Paul, McLinden and Scott Hill left and then injuries struck and new recuits Fa'afili and Haumuina never even played a game. The club have never recovered from the lack of finances and the lack of recruits from downunder. So no coach is likely to be successful under these circumstances. To McDermott's credit he stayed and did good work in developing young local talent.







Plenty of circumstantial evidence. Consider the common denominator in the following:



1. Smith's Hudderfield were relegated. After McDermott joined him as assistant they were promoted

2. Smith brought him along as assistant when he joined Leeds and in their first season finished 1st and became 2004 SL Champions

3. In 2005 we finished 2nd and were Grand finalists and Smith was voted Coach of the Year aided by McDermott.

4. In 2006 McDermott left in July to join Harlequinns who Leeds had already beaten 0-60 away. I seem to remember just after he left we lost 4 games on the trot at a time when BM was turning the Harlequinns season around. Leeds failed to win anything and lost many more games than the previous 2 seasons added together despite the signing of Toopi signed in July 2006 following the cature of Peacock earlier.

5. In 2007 Smith's Leeds went on the become champions again helped by the big name signings of the exceptional and influential Webb and Leuluai.



I also had the chance to witness McDermott in action at Leeds and know he was well repected by the players for his contribution.







The only axe I have to grind is to object and argue against the unfair and personal put downs that Mcdermott seems to attract from certain posters...yourself excepted of course.

Have memories of 1996 and 2000 really faded so quickly?

Just on Vickery - because I love this topic - I'll again defend BM on selecting him, at least until the WCC and for a few games thereafter. He did reasonably well pre-season - hence getting a deal in the first place - and IMO it was completely understandable that BM would go with someone with a bit of experience (particularly open age) in BJB's absence.



He probably should have been dropped earlier, but I'd guess BM thought he'd get a bit of confidence at some stage and play to his best. As it is that never happened. It certainly couldn't have helped his confidence with posters on here blaming him for everything except the GFC. Hudds at home ring a bell? I went and rewatched all the tries against us because they were apparently all down to Vickery - in fact only one was with Watkins far more at fault.



Given the ridiculous negative hype about Vickery, BM backed him to his own detriment. I expect that sort of atittude is probably why the players like BM more than some fans.



BTW that doesn't excuse some p*ss-poor showings on BM's watch - particularly last year. Or his weird use of subs and not rotating ageing forwards. Or Burrow starting at hooker. I think BM at times is too idiosyncratic and determined to show he's right. But in general when it counts the senior players have responded very well to him, and that's what counts.

Idiosyncratic? For sure, though not necessarily a bad thing. Determined to show he's right? I'm not convinced McD gives a fig what others think, in which case he's unlikely to feel the need to prove anything to anybody.

Maybe its more a case of his avoiding kneejerk reactions, instead only making changes when experience shows that they are necessary.

Regardless, a third consecutive GF win will be a stand-alone in terms of coaching success at Leeds.

I feel physically ill that this fool is mentioned in the same breath as Murray, Smith, Bluey.

Well if Leeds win SL this season he'll have surpassed the acheivements of all three

Been watching some of 2009 Bluey era games and boy he put some venom in that team in games against Saints.



Bails..Senior..Webb..JJB.....Kylie full of hatred in their eyes. Enjoying hurting them. The likes of Wilkin couldn't cope. Great series of battles those, tailed off alot and it was only a few years ago.

I think he has clearly earned the right now to be mentioned alongside the best we have had in SL era. Would 'the double' this year make him the best?



Thoughts

Yep, I think it would. If we are chanting in victory at Old Trafford in October, then Bradford and London will fade as just bad dreams.



What was interesting at Wembley on Saturday was when Mac was handed the trophy, he seemed reluctant to lift it above but the Leeds fans clearly shouted for him to do so, and he got great acclaim when he did so.

He is a bloody good coach for the Rhinos.