Yeah he definitely has some KFC and Domino's induced size about him. The interchange system was designed with Dave in mind.

I play amateur level for a club in Leeds, and abuse from the sidelines is part and parcel of playing away (it shouldn't be, but it is). It's not just the players that get abuse either, the referee too. If it's intimidating for us as a team of 17 rugby players, it must be awful for a ref being completely on their own.



It does seem to be part of the culture in amateur RL, and it's not hard to see that the attitude must filter down to junior levels.

You don't coach the juniors do you?



Seriously though, it does sound like there is an example being set in the Midlands, and probably more clubs and, more crucially, the leagues, need to follow DHM's example too and just start refusing to sanction fixtures involving "problem" teams, unless they learn to behave.



Being a tad on the small side for RL, I played amateur football from the age of 6 until my ankles refused to allow it anymore. The same problems exist. Some leagues handle it better than others. I've played in leagues where the committee persistently do nothing about repeat offenders and it puts clubs in a difficult position. You can refuse to play, but that risks fines and also deprives you f the chance of 6 points per season, which hardly seems fair. I played my last couple of seasons in a Warwickshire league, which featured a team who had received 12 red cards by Christmas in my last season. Generally these were for serious foul play (read 'attempted murder') or fighting, and generally too late in matches to have any bearing on the outcome. They also tended to have a lot of red cards against them, from people taking the law into their own hands. Which I don't condone, but a lot of the refs were understandably intimidated by some of the stuff that went on. The league took no action against the club and as far as I know, said club are still in business in the top division. A status they tend to maintain by kicking ten bells out of some of the younger teams until they give in.



I'd guess that's a familiar tale for a lot of people involved in amateur RL?

And therein lies the crux of the problem.



It tends to be those representing the "problem" clubs who shout loudest at league management committee meetings, who throw their weight around then threaten to throw their toys out of the pram at the first hint of sanction, who have been on the committee for 20-odd years and have built up a little clique of those clinging to their coat tails desperate for their own sniff of power.



Rugby Union at lower levels is run by people who do it for the love of the game. Amateur RL is run primarily (in my experience around Leeds anyway) for their own benefit by those who are on an ego trip.

I can think of a Sunday football league not a million miles away from the NW Leeds area which would fit that description down to the ground.



No wonder RU does so well at the grass roots is it?

No I don't. Dave is by no means a junior though.



I have done a lot of work with young players coming into open age for the first time. Uffortunately, not all midlands teams behave in the same spirit, and there have been a couple of occassions where there's been some unneccessary intimidation of the youngsters, needless to say it needed to be sorted out, and was. I was pretty upset at the attitudes of some teams for what in reality is a level so grassroots, you're practically 6ft under

For the sake of balance, I have also experienced agro & violence in Rugby Union, as well as League, though I tend to laugh it off, and get on with it, and hit the dirty fekker harder next time he has the ball

We don't play mini or junior fixtures against our local large town because one of their parents assualted one of our juniors during a match a couple of years a go. They either change their culture or we don't go near them.

We still played them at senior level though and I found their 2nd team to be a good bunch last year (especially the guy who I butted heads with - we both ended up chatting in casualty), but their firsts and their supporters were a bunch of c***s. Thankfully not in our league this year.

We do seem to suffer a discrepancy between our adults approach, and our juniors.

As usual, some good & intelligent posts from the board's coaching fraternity. Dunno whether others feel the same but I always find this stuff worth reading.